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Commoncold
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Thread started on: Oct 7th, 2006, 01:42am »

OMG that stuff is all BS....don't believe a word lipsrsealed
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #1 on: Oct 7th, 2006, 10:13pm »

Quote:
Are you aware by May of 2008 the law will require you to carry a national identification card?
Are you aware that there are plans being developed to have all Americans embedded with a Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) computer chip under their skin so they can be tracked wherever they go?


that is true, tell me any reason why not; yes the government is not perfect, i'll you that, but there is no way these things will ever be passed because 1. it is not ethical 2. it cannot be reasonably enforced.

and being specificaly about the RFID one, now this bill states that all people in america must wear one, so what happends when someone has to visit the country? the bills supporters would be saying that if someone wanted to visit the country they now have to get necessary papers AND go through surgery......that is unconstitutional by the highest standards I have ever seen, I will wager that less than 1/3 of congress accualy votes in favor of it....

also think about this illegal immagrants have to be caught 3 times to be deported otherwise the law has little jurisdiction over them.....now what happens when an illegal immigrant is caught with no identification cards or no RFID? the law cannot force these people to get the items, because they must be caught for the 3rd time to have any action to be taken against them....

I'm not trying to argue with ya I'm just trying to inform you that even with the most corrupt people in government....that these will never be laws or will not be accepted by the american people- mostly because those little chips or whatever can interfere with peoples lifes, say you can't have surgery because you have diabetes...what happens then? and if your too poor to afford one? and if these people say they'll take the money to buy these things from tax $'s you can bet your boots that most americans won't be happy with another tax hike.....

as non-ethical as this topic is I will respect your counter-arguement, you can say anything you want- I won't jump on ya for it wink
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #2 on: Oct 7th, 2006, 10:18pm »

I just thought of something: the government might have the cojones to allow the tags to be put on your car, even though it may be unconstitutional....however the government might ride it off as "loosly constitutional"- but then again wire tapping is "loosly constitutional" undecided
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #3 on: Oct 8th, 2006, 03:23am »

Gonna give this stuff a read in the morning.. RFIDs are scary.. they are comming, mark my words..
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #4 on: Oct 8th, 2006, 11:51am »

honest to god....why does my last post start out with "that is true" ....I KNOW I wrote "this isn't true"....(sigh).....

But anywayz I gotta agree wit ya guyz....the government isn't that great, there is so many problems and I think one of the leading factors to a governments downfall is greed. everyone one wants the upper hand on the country because they think there view is "right" and that everyone should be forced to live by their take on life..... I. E. power grabs from each branch, frivolous laws being passed, federalism going down in flames.....etc.

But some of things that the government is coming out with is hurting american society rather than helping.....like the new immagration laws....I guess jorge gonzales now has to be treated as an "american citizen" if he is in the country ILLEGALLY! so I say complain until your face is blue and maybe something might happen....lol angry

I almost 4got to tell ya spiffcat....my american history teacher doesn't axe-chewaly give us a bunch of BS about how the country is so great and bla-bla-bla he does give us most of the real facts and we have yet to read a word from the american history book wink
« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2006, 11:58am by Commoncold » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #5 on: Oct 8th, 2006, 12:01pm »

and another thing.....why can't the monroe doctrine be revived again?...man america's leaders are really excited about messing in other countries buisiness (iraq doesn't count though....they poked us first...now they suffer the consequences cool)....
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #6 on: Oct 8th, 2006, 1:00pm »

Sorry CC we did not poke at Iraq first. What kicked it all off with them was Kuwait. Kuwait was is thought of as the 19th providence in Iraq. They, Kuwait, cut Iraq off from the major ports where their oil pipelines to the ocean ran. Iraq in return invaded Kuwait and took back what was once theirs. So we then had the 1st Gulf War. I know because I was there and served in the military at the time and was in way to many briefings. Later they did try to cover up a lot of what Kuwait did because they are our allies.
WE then said that Hussein could not invade the north and south areas of his country. Why would he want to invade them? Because of Kurdish and other factions lived there and were trying to stage coups. THAT is why he killed his "OWN" people. They were trying to kill him. This is how it has always gone there.
They did shoot at our fighters after the cease fire, and crossed over the no fly zones, but that was also because they were chasing people back out of the areas they were to control. The news always seems to forget to tell everything. But I you watch closely the do air this stuff once and then they will pull it as instructed by the government and the other powers that be.
Now you have to fast forward to the not so long ago. We invaded Iraq, they had NO weapons of mass destruction to speak of, only a few chemicals weapons stored away. They had no labs, or facilities to make any. They also DID NOT support terrorists. I fact, Iran and all the other Islamic nations around them HATED Iraq and Hussein because his beliefs are actually moderate. In fact he allowed Christians and Jews to worship in the country, they were just not allowed to convert people. He even had very few trusted Christians in the top levels of his military. Yes, Christian generals, but like I said only a few. That is why he never had any dealings with Islamic terrorist, they also wanted him dead. I mean it is unheard of in that region to not just tolerate but promote them to positions of power. They saw him as an infidel, and tried to assassinate him several times, so he would gas them. I would have most likely had tried to kill my would be assassins in any way I could too in his situation.
I'm not saying Hussien was a good person, but that the reasons we invaded were BS. If we were to invade, it should have been for legitimate reasons not some concocted story about them being this major world threat. It should have been because they had broken the peace treaty at the time. But that would not have given the US the international support it wanted for invading Iraq. As we are now seeing, that area has always been unstable and will probably always be, so it took a mad dog with an iron fist to control it. It is just a different way of life that most of us just don't understand.
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #7 on: Oct 8th, 2006, 9:35pm »

I agree with Spiff, Unvbill and Yard. I have yet to watch this video yet, it keeps screwing up on me, maybe fox fire doesnt like me watching it. shocked Well anywho, I have the following to say about evil RFID chips. Here is a related article..

Quote:
The RFID Hacking Underground
They can steal your smartcard, lift your passport, jack your car, even clone the chip in your arm. And you won't feel a thing. 5 tales from the RFID-hacking underground.
By Annalee Newitz Page 1 of 3 next »

Feature:
While You Were Reading This, Someone Ripped You Off
Plus:
Risky Chips: 4 RFID Hacks
James Van Bokkelen is about to be robbed. A wealthy software entrepreneur, Van Bokkelen will be the latest victim of some punk with a laptop. But this won't be an email scam or bank account hack. A skinny 23-year-old named Jonathan Westhues plans to use a cheap, homemade USB device to swipe the office key out of Van Bokkelen's back pocket.


"I just need to bump into James and get my hand within a few inches of him," Westhues says. We're shivering in the early spring air outside the offices of Sandstorm, the Internet security company Van Bokkelen runs north of Boston. As Van Bokkelen approaches from the parking lot, Westhues brushes past him. A coil of copper wire flashes briefly in Westhues' palm, then disappears.

Van Bokkelen enters the building, and Westhues returns to me. "Let's see if I've got his keys," he says, meaning the signal from Van Bokkelen's smartcard badge. The card contains an RFID sensor chip, which emits a short burst of radio waves when activated by the reader next to Sandstorm's door. If the signal translates into an authorized ID number, the door unlocks.

The coil in Westhues' hand is the antenna for the wallet-sized device he calls a cloner, which is currently shoved up his sleeve. The cloner can elicit, record, and mimic signals from smartcard RFID chips. Westhues takes out the device and, using a USB cable, connects it to his laptop and downloads the data from Van Bokkelen's card for processing. Then, satisfied that he has retrieved the code, Westhues switches the cloner from Record mode to Emit. We head to the locked door.

"Want me to let you in?" Westhues asks. I nod.

He waves the cloner's antenna in front of a black box attached to the wall. The single red LED blinks green. The lock clicks. We walk in and find Van Bokkelen waiting.

"See? I just broke into your office!" Westhues says gleefully. "It's so simple." Van Bokkelen, who arranged the robbery "just to see how it works," stares at the antenna in Westhues' hand. He knows that Westhues could have performed his wireless pickpocket maneuver and then returned with the cloner after hours. Westhues could have walked off with tens of thousands of dollars' worth of computer equipment - and possibly source code worth even more. Van Bokkelen mutters, "I always thought this might be a lousy security system."

RFID chips are everywhere - companies and labs use them as access keys, Prius owners use them to start their cars, and retail giants like Wal-Mart have deployed them as inventory tracking devices. Drug manufacturers like Pfizer rely on chips to track pharmaceuticals. The tags are also about to get a lot more personal: Next-gen US passports and credit cards will contain RFIDs, and the medical industry is exploring the use of implantable chips to manage patients. According to the RFID market analysis firm IDTechEx, the push for digital inventory tracking and personal ID systems will expand the current annual market for RFIDs from $2.7 billion to as much as $26 billion by 2016.

RFID technology dates back to World War II, when the British put radio transponders in Allied aircraft to help early radar system crews detect good guys from bad guys. The first chips were developed in research labs in the 1960s, and by the next decade the US government was using tags to electronically authorize trucks coming into Los Alamos National Laboratory and other secure facilities. Commercialized chips became widely available in the '80s, and RFID tags were being used to track difficult-to-manage property like farm animals and railroad cars. But over the last few years, the market for RFIDs has exploded, driven by advances in computer databases and declining chip prices. Now dozens of companies, from Motorola to Philips to Texas Instruments, manufacture the chips.

The tags work by broadcasting a few bits of information to specialized electronic readers. Most commercial RFID chips are passive emitters, which means they have no onboard battery: They send a signal only when a reader powers them with a squirt of electrons. Once juiced, these chips broadcast their signal indiscriminately within a certain range, usually a few inches to a few feet. Active emitter chips with internal power can send signals hundreds of feet; these are used in the automatic toll-paying devices (with names like FasTrak and E-ZPass) that sit on car dashboards, pinging tollgates as autos whiz through.

For protection, RFID signals can be encrypted. The chips that will go into US passports, for example, will likely be coded to make it difficult for unauthorized readers to retrieve their onboard information (which will include a person's name, age, nationality, and photo). But most commercial RFID tags don't include security, which is expensive: A typical passive RFID chip costs about a quarter, whereas one with encryption capabilities runs about $5. It's just not cost-effective for your average office building to invest in secure chips.

This leaves most RFIDs vulnerable to cloning or - if the chip has a writable memory area, as many do - data tampering. Chips that track product shipments or expensive equipment, for example, often contain pricing and item information. These writable areas can be locked, but often they aren't, because the companies using RFIDs don't know how the chips work or because the data fields need to be updated frequently. Either way, these chips are open to hacking.

"The world of RFID is like the Internet in its early stages," says Ari Juels, research manager at the high tech security firm RSA Labs. "Nobody thought about building security features into the Internet in advance, and now we're paying for it in viruses and other attacks. We're likely to see the same thing with RFIDs."

David Molnar is a soft-spoken computer science graduate student who studies commercial uses for RFIDs at UC Berkeley. I meet him in a quiet branch of the Oakland Public Library, which, like many modern libraries, tracks most of its inventory with RFID tags glued inside the covers of its books. These tags, made by Libramation, contain several writable memory "pages" that store the books' barcodes and loan status.



so yea...

Just today I was at the local FOOD City and I used my evil value card..(I hate using those things...dont get me started) and not only did I use it, =scanned! my name and address in the comp and what I'm buying= the clerk asked "Whats your phone number?" I say, "EHH? WHAT DO YOU NEED THAT FOR?! " She said "Incase you loose your card, it can keep your data in the system" NO! I declaired. My number is unlisted, "I'm not giving it to you, if I loose my card then oh well, I dont get a dollar off my shave foam and milk."

But wouldnt it be easier to waive your wrist and use some embeded chip to make sure buisness know who you are you say you are.... I'm sure they will disguise this "chip implantment" for some convenient way to improve your life..

"show me your papers"
« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2006, 9:35pm by Jackolope » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #8 on: Oct 8th, 2006, 10:31pm »

I saw the 20 minute version of the video a while back ago. It is pretty good. Most of what they say in it is true as far as I know, the whole Fed, and banking thing really stinks. The only problem is that most people do not care what goes on as long as no one bothers them, they would just trog along by themselves or grouped like cattle. It seems that a majority of the people are afraid to buck the system, or at least afraid to get on board till there is sufficient numbers that it feels safe to them.
There is a saying I teach all my new shop stewards "Compliant, Complacent, Condemned." This is the 3 C's of big business and government control of a population. First you get them to do it by force or some other persuasion. Then they just do it on their own because they are just used to it, and don't want to really fight it. Finally they do it because they think that it has always been this way so they are stuck with it forever unless they rebel against the system.
RFIDs are here and being used now, as well as other means of electronic devices. I have a card with a magnetic strip and an impeded chip in it for work. It is a little smaller than a credit card but a little thicker. It has my name, phone number, date I got hired, and who knows what else on it. The doors at work can detect it from up to 3 feet away and unlocks the doors for me to enter the building. The time clock is not as strong, it has to be with in 8 inches to detect it. We asked a tech installing the system how much info can fit on a card and he said he was not allowed to say exactly but it would hold enough personal info to scare the hell out of ya.
Just think if they installed drivers licensee with chips. Then they had sensors say in every door way leading into and out of every building. Unless you left your licensee in the car they would be able to track you every where you went. They could install it in elevators or anywhere where you would have to get close to it to pass by. There would be no privacy any longer.
You might think what do I care, I am an honest person with nothing to hide. But lets say you are self employed and are working on a project of some sort and don't want the competition to know where you are at with it, and who might be in the market to buy it. Someone could sell all the names of the places you went, along with all the people that went there and that you may have met. Eventually they would be able to put 2 and 2 together and jeopardize all your hard work.
On the up side most criminals are dumb, so convicted shoplifters would go down to the local Wally World with their license in the wallet and the store security would be notified the second you entered the store. But this is still not a good enough reason to spy on the population.
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #9 on: Oct 9th, 2006, 08:56am »

Here is an interview with Russo, the guy behind the movie.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3254488777215293198
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #10 on: Oct 9th, 2006, 5:50pm »

lol bill you missread me....

Quote:
iraq doesn't count though....they poked us first
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #11 on: Oct 18th, 2006, 6:38pm »

on Oct 8th, 2006, 12:34am, SpiffCat wrote:

Perhaps at one time this was a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Today, it's a government of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation. It's a cycle as people move from the corporate world into the government and vice versa. Perhaps the original goal of the FDA was to protect the people from harmful drugs... but that can limit corporate profits. Thus, you may be seeing formerly approved substances later being recalled after a number of people are injured or killed by them.


on Oct 18th, 2006, 5:54pm, Yardbird wrote:
From CNN:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Former FDA commissioner Lester Crawford pleaded guilty Tuesday to conflict of interest and falsely reporting information about stocks he owned in food, beverage and medical device companies he was in charge of regulating.
...
The charges -- conflict of interest and false reporting -- are misdemeanors and each carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison. Robinson set Crawford's sentencing for January 22.
...
As head of the Food and Drug Administration, Crawford oversaw regulation of products that account for an estimated 25 cents of every dollar spent each year by U.S. consumers.
...
Federal regulations prohibited Crawford from owning shares in companies considered to be "significantly regulated" by the FDA.


It's one thing to stand on a soap box and rant fiery rhetroic. It's plain scary when it's even more true than you suspected. shocked lipsrsealed cry

It's nice, though, when some of these $#@!@#$ get busted. It's frightening to think how many are not caught...

Maximum penalty of 1 year in prison for each offense. If there are only 2 offenses (conflict of interest and false reporting) charged, then that's criminal in itself. Feh, probably to be done in a low-security, Club Fed prison... He should get 1 year per stock that he owned... at Guantanamo.


-- RarCat

P.S. Yikes...
http://www.newswithviews.com/Richards/byron11.htm
Quote:
This criticism comes from a collection of experts that the FDA assembled to give them advice on the safety of drugs. Numerous experts on the Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee felt the FDA was not following their advice regarding needed drug-safety improvements. The message is loud and clear: The FDA, an agency that maintains a cozy and profitable relationship with Big Pharma, is incapable of protecting the American public from harm.
...
The FDA was shocked when earlier this year the Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee voted 8 to 7 to place a black box warning for cardiovascular risk on all ADHD medications. Such a move would cost Big Pharma dearly, eroding the ten billion dollar children’s market in ADHD meds, antidepressants, and atypical antipsychotic meds. Americans are worried, and rightfully so, that the true risks of these medications are being hidden and downplayed thus placing an entire generation of children in danger.

The FDA thought the advisory committee was going to review depression and suicide risk relating to ADHD medication. Instead, the meeting spun out of FDA control and resulted in a major catastrophe, from the perspective of the FDA. In no way, shape, or form did the FDA want the committee delving into cardiovascular risk in the manner they did. Of course, the FDA does not have to follow the advice of their advisory panels. But how could they prevent more fallout on their already existing lax-on-safety image problem, especially when their own appointed panel of experts is telling them to act quickly to protect children? Stunned, FDA spokesperson Robert Temple offered this lame explanation, “You don’t want to over scare people with data that aren’t very solid.”

In high-level damage control the FDA shunted the issue to a different advisory panel, one that would water down the recommendations. One month later the new panel stated a black box warning for cardiovascular risk was not warranted. The FDA strategy is clear; if one panel warns of a need for safety, another panel can be used to quell concern. After the cover up meeting Temple stated, “The committee was not impressed with the level of cardiovascular risk to children.” Twenty-five reported cardiovascular deaths from ADHD medication don’t impress the FDA when Big Pharma blockbuster profits are at stake.
...
The current Bush-appointed FDA leadership, such as temporary head Andrew von Eschenbach and second in command, Scott Gottlieb, must have all their extensive Big Pharma connections fully exposed. There is a reason they want to speed drugs to the market, reduce safety testing, and prevent Americans from suing drug companies when drugs injure and kill our people.

Hmmm. $oldier$ and civilian$ are dying over$ea$ in war$. Civilian$ are dying at home from FDA-approved drug$. What the rea$on$ for thi$?

P.P.S.
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=40519

Quote:
On Monday, the Department of Justice charged Crawford with the two misdemeanors, each of which carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison. Barbara Van Gelder, Crawford's attorney, said she expects him to be fined and placed on probation.

lipsrsealed lipsrsealed lipsrsealed lipsrsealed lipsrsealed lipsrsealed lipsrsealed lipsrsealed lipsrsealed
RAR!
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #12 on: Oct 19th, 2006, 4:48pm »

LA LA LA LA LA LA!!! I CAN'T HEAR YOU, THAT MEANS IT WON'T HAPPEN LA LA LA LA LA!!!!
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #13 on: Oct 31st, 2006, 11:52pm »

ah great, more rfid. lol

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72019-0.html?tw=wn_index_1

Quote:
The story seems simple enough. An outside privacy and security advisory committee to the Department of Homeland Security penned a tough report concluding the government should not use chips that can be read remotely in identification documents. But the report remains stuck in draft mode, even as new identification cards with the chips are being announced.

Jim Harper, a Cato Institute fellow who serves on the committee and who recently published a book on identification called Identity Crisis, thinks he knows why the Department of Homeland Security Data Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee report on the use of Radio Frequency Identification devices for human identification (.pdf) never made it out of the draft stage.

"The powers that be took a good run at deep-sixing this report," Harper said. "There's such a strongly held consensus among industry and DHS that RFID is the way to go that getting people off of that and getting them to examine the technology is very hard to do."

RFID chips, which either have a battery or use the radio waves from a reader to send information, are widely used in tracking inventory or for highway toll payment systems.

But critics argue that hackers can skim information off the chips and that the chips can be used to track individuals. Hackers have also been able to clone some chips, such as those used for payment cards and building security, as well as passports.

The draft report concludes that "RFID appears to offer little benefit when compared to the consequences it brings for privacy and data integrity" -- a finding that was widely criticized by RFID industry officials when the committee met in June.

Meanwhile, the RFIDs just keeping coming. Last week, the State Department announced that it would soon be issuing new cards for visitors to Mexico, Canada and the Bermudas containing a chip that could be read from 20 feet away.

Changes in federal law will require Americans to have either a passport or the new "PASS card" to re-enter the country by air in 2007. Currently a driver's license will suffice to get an American back inside the country from these neighboring spots, but starting in 2008 that won't suffice even for quick, cross-border jaunts by car.

RFID chips are being used in the nation's passports, cards used to identify transportation workers and cards for federal employees, and may be features of the Registered Traveler program, the soon-to-be-released standards for all states' driver's licenses under the REAL-ID act, as well as proposed medical cards.

Homeland Security spokesman Larry Orluskie says no one's trying to kill the report. "The committee is still soliciting input and the draft report is on its website, so I guess they are proceeding," Orluskie said.

In early October, the Center for Democracy and Technology, a civil liberties group known for partnering with industry groups, submitted comments criticizing the draft report, calling for a deeper factual inquiry and analysis, and a broader focus on identification technologies generally.

Jim Dempsey, the policy director for the CDT, says his group doesn't want the report killed -- he just thinks the privacy committee is ignoring the reality that RFID-enabled identification is already here. The report should focus on how secure the cards are, how far they can be read from and the whole backend of how data is stored and shared.

"Basically we were raising a flag on the one hand saying that RFID is already being deployed and we can no longer take the finger-in-the-dike approach," Dempsey said. "And we were saying that RFID is only one facet and not necessarily the most troubling aspect of this broader evolution of the creation and management of identification. The implications are huge, and to focus on RFID is, in that sense, off-target."

For instance, when customs agents begin reading the new PASS cards at the border, the travel data will be stored for up to 50 years, will be shared within Homeland Security and will be made available to law enforcement groups, both domestically and internationally, according to DHS' own privacy assessment (.pdf).

It's unclear whether the new cards will have encryption or other measures to prevent skimming or forgery. That decision was left to the State Department, which will produce the card and has thus far remained mum on the privacy issues.

Harper hopes the committee will vote to finalize the report and that it will have an effect on the design of the PASS card, which currently proposes to let a Customs officer read them from 20 feet away.

"If we don't have a report out before the (PASS card) comment period ends, then we are irrelevant," Harper said.
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xx Re: Wake up Y'all!!!
« Reply #14 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 1:45pm »

Dang... not just some old transport copter, either! Looks like an Apache Gunship!

Must be those illegal immigrant chickens their looking for. Or perhaps some exotic plant life that is used for, er... medicinal purposes. Thought you were safe in your backwoods hideaway, did you?

Aw, you don't have to worry too much as long as your ShadowCat is under camouflage. If not, he was well within ER Laser range. grin

LOL... not too long ago, they found this huge marijuana forest being cultivated practically a rock's throw behind these megamillion-dollar homes in OC. Hmmmm... the residents who were interviewed appeared to be in shock, but maybe that was how they were paying for their megamillion-dollar homes...

Eh, I'm used to gunships flying overhead. Don't get them nearly as much since the El Toro airbase shutdown (I miss the roar of F-16's), but we still appear to be in the flight path from somewhere to Camp Pendelton.

Anyone remember the movie, Blue Thunder?

-- HeliCat

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